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Taking a run at the orthodoxy: Maybe semi-autos are OK
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MostlyHarmless
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:41 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm Posts: 471 Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
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What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.
As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.
What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this.
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Hunter07
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:04 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:53 am Posts: 725 Location: New Ulm area
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MostlyHarmless wrote: What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.
As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.
What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this. True. But what Ramoel said, makes a lot of sense and holds water. Quote: You can argue technical details all day long but what really counts is how well you can shoot what you choose to carry.
To your "defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student", insist that they spend the time to find the type weapon that works for them........whether it be a revolver or auto.
_________________ The only downfall to a 1911A1, is actually a plus: You can have it your way, and can put an unreal amount of money into em'.
Squeeze trigger, BANG, repeat. Kind of boring, but I never cared for drama.
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MostlyHarmless
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:09 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm Posts: 471 Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
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Hunter07 wrote: To your "defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student", insist that they spend the time to find the type weapon that works for them........whether it be a revolver or auto.
I don't think that's a useful or fair answer to give them. They expect reasonable guidance, as they should. Not everyone has the time, inclination, or mindset to try half a dozen guns, nor is it necessary to try half a dozen guns in order to be safe and effective. Further, that's not what's happening today. Most instructors recommend that people who are unfamiliar with guns get a 2" snubbie for carry.
The approach I'm advocating is that, as leaders in the carry movement, we instead recommend "here, try this" with a suitable modern automatic. In most cases that will work. If it doesn't (hand size, can't pull the slide back, points wrong), then try something else.
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Moby Clarke
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:58 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:09 pm Posts: 965 Location: North Minneapolis
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MostlyHarmless wrote: What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.
As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.
What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this.
I think you answered your own question. If said person is not inclined to "work" with their firearm, then the answer is easy, revolver. There is too much that can go wrong with an auto, even today's versions, if someone is simply going to stick the pistol in a purse or a holster every day, but never take it out until "that one time". Further, most, meaning at least 99% of all those "times" just showing the gun gets it done.
Now, if you have someone who starts out not willing to "work" with their firearm and they change their mind later, then you can move onto autos. But if they are of the mindset not to become experienced with their firearm, and there are many who are going to be like this whether we all like it or not, the revolver is the only way to go.
Edited to add: My reasoning is that if their is a malfunction, the user is not going to have any idea about what to do next, other than pull the trigger again. With revolvers, this is exactly what they should do. With autos, there is a whole manual of what they must do. Again, without practice, a jam becomes a death sentence.
_________________ It is about Liberty!
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Chris
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:03 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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Moby Clarke wrote: If said person is not inclined to "work" with their firearm, then the answer is easy, revolver.
Well, my personal preference for self defense is a well-armed and well-trained fire team in overwatch position, preferably with fire and air support on-call.
I mean, the choice between .38 special and 9mm parabellum seems somewhat pointless, when you've got guys up on the hill with sniper rifles, machineguns, and laser designators.
But, I'm afraid, arranging for that isn't always practical.
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Jeremiah
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:43 am |
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Raving Moderate |
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Posts: 1292 Location: Minneapolis
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Dee
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:11 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:39 pm Posts: 533 Location: Mankato Area
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Nothing in this world quite like a 16" shell!
It's too bad the Iowa's are decommisioned. We might need to use them (again) on North Korea in the future.
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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:41 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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MostlyHarmless wrote: ...[*] Revolvers are harder to conceal because of the cylinder bulge. The extent to which this is a problem depends upon gender, body shape, and style of dress but it is indeed a real problem, at least for some people in some situations.
Is that really a draw back? Imagine how studly you would look Mexican carrying this revolver!
Middle gun...Dragoon revolver in 45-70 by Firearm Specialties
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:10 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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gyrfalcon wrote: Is that really a draw back? Imagine how studly you would look Mexican carrying this revolver!
Can you see yourself attending the Renaissance Festival carrying this?
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MostlyHarmless
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Post subject: Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:41 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm Posts: 471 Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
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joelr wrote: More later, perhaps, but for now: I'm very much enjoying this discussion. FWIW.
:: BUMP ::
Just because you linked to your B2C class web page from another thread.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:39 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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Hmmm, "when no lesser force will serve" may be a sticking point for self-defense here.
Unless I'm attacked by the entire Taliban at once. Hey, it could happen! It's not like the CIA has found them yet!
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Q_Continuum
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Post subject: Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:12 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:43 am Posts: 371 Location: Anoka, MN
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mrokern wrote: Hmmm, "when no lesser force will serve" may be a sticking point for self-defense here. Unless I'm attacked by the entire Taliban at once. Hey, it could happen! It's not like the CIA has found them yet!
They DO keep telling us we've got all those terrorists here in our own country!
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parap1445
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Post subject: Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:45 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:36 pm Posts: 95 Location: SE suburbs of St Paul
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MostlyHarmless wrote: What this thread is really about is the answer to the question "What should I, as a defense instructor/firearms aficionado/gun nut (circle one) recommend as a weapon to my defensively minded wife/girlfriend/mom/coworker/student who does not care any more deeply about guns than I do about, say, the finer points of Dahlia propagation?" Most people on the forum have a personal interest in firearms that leads them to make choices that are perfectly fine for them but out of place for the beginner or the person who only cares about defense.
As I stated in the opening post, the conventional wisdom has been a revolver, either a 2" snubby .38 for concealment, or a 4" or 6" .357 behind the counter in a store. I'm challenging that conventional wisdom, as noted.
What gun those of us who have twenty of them like best has nothing to do with this. While I'm a fan of the semi-auto, specifically Browning design SA semi-autos. I would have to agree that for the total novice who does not plan on spending the time to familiarize themselves with the gun, a revolver is probably the recommendation I would make, Revolvers are simply...simple to use. ScottM wrote:Quote: I really like my 1911 for carry but am thinking about getting a XD9 for the capacity
>unsolicited promotion< Para Ordnance has a great selection of hi capacity 1911 pistols. You can have the 1911 that you like and the capacity you want.
_________________ Life Member-National Rifle Association
Life Member-Ctizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Minnesota Permit to Carry holder
Member-North American Hunting Club
Veteran - US Army
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