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Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
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Author:  mrokern [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
Selurcspi wrote:
The news reports last night (if you believe that kind of thing) said that both candidates have raised about the same ammount since the outburst. Thet would be about $1 million each, so financially it's a wash!

FWIW My opinion is that the Republicans are far too mild mannered when compared to the Dems and if the only way they can get air time is to interrupt BHOs speech, I say have at it! Then again, I quite like the give and take (including the jeers and jokes) of the Commons!
:D :D :D :D :D


What was Robin Williams' comment about the House of Commons?

Ah yes..."It's like Congress with a two-drink minimum."

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  chunkstyle [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
One doesn't sass the president when he's addressing Congress. He's not just the head of government, like the British PM, he's also the head of state, like the Queen. Even the most boisterous of MP's wouldn't mouth off to the Queen.

Wilson's motivation is all about the Rovian trick of distracting from the issue at hand, and making the news cycle about HIM, and not about Obama's plan. This was no impulsive outburst, but a well-planned event. He should be censured, and heavily fined. ($1m + at least.) This should be done by Congress itself, since it was during a Congressional session.

What's more, Rep. Wilson is an officer of the National Guard, making Obama not only his President, but also his Commander in Chief. Insubordination and Conduct Unbecoming an Officer charges, anyone? 30 days in the brig might also be in order.
Author:  tman065 [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
chunkstyle wrote:
One doesn't sass the president when he's addressing Congress. He's not just the head of government, like the British PM, he's also the head of state, like the Queen. Even the most boisterous of MP's wouldn't mouth off to the Queen.

Wilson's motivation is all about the Rovian trick of distracting from the issue at hand, and making the news cycle about HIM, and not about Obama's plan. This was no impulsive outburst, but a well-planned event. He should be censured, and heavily fined. ($1m + at least.) This should be done by Congress itself, since it was during a Congressional session.

What's more, Rep. Wilson is an officer of the National Guard, making Obama not only his President, but also his Commander in Chief. Insubordination and Conduct Unbecoming an Officer charges, anyone? 30 days in the brig might also be in order.


Would voicing the truth be considered insubordinate?
Author:  mrokern [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
tman065 wrote:
chunkstyle wrote:
One doesn't sass the president when he's addressing Congress. He's not just the head of government, like the British PM, he's also the head of state, like the Queen. Even the most boisterous of MP's wouldn't mouth off to the Queen.

Wilson's motivation is all about the Rovian trick of distracting from the issue at hand, and making the news cycle about HIM, and not about Obama's plan. This was no impulsive outburst, but a well-planned event. He should be censured, and heavily fined. ($1m + at least.) This should be done by Congress itself, since it was during a Congressional session.

What's more, Rep. Wilson is an officer of the National Guard, making Obama not only his President, but also his Commander in Chief. Insubordination and Conduct Unbecoming an Officer charges, anyone? 30 days in the brig might also be in order.


Would voicing the truth be considered insubordinate?


Directly calling a superior a liar would certainly be.

-Mark
Author:  bstrawse [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
I believe Representative Wilson's comment was inappropriate and out of line.

Even if the President was lying - the outburst from the floor in front of a joint session isn't appropriate in my mind - or by the rules of the House.

There are far better ways to make a point.

B
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
chunkstyle wrote:
Wilson's motivation is all about the Rovian trick of distracting from the issue at hand, and making the news cycle about HIM, and not about Obama's plan. This was no impulsive outburst, but a well-planned event.


If that's true, then bravo for him. Theft of news cycle is not a federal crime, nor against House rules, nor should it be.

Quote:
He should be censured, and heavily fined. ($1m + at least.) This should be done by Congress itself, since it was during a Congressional session.


Again, no. The president addressed a joint session of Congress. He does not own that body, and "contempt of (contemptible) president" is no more a crime than "Contempt of cop."

Quote:
What's more, Rep. Wilson is an officer of the National Guard, making Obama not only his President, but also his Commander in Chief. Insubordination and Conduct Unbecoming an Officer charges, anyone? 30 days in the brig might also be in order.


Again and again, no. It is his duty as a congressman to represent his district, even against the president, if necessary. If sassing the president can result in UCMC charges, than the offices of National Guard (a STATE military body, remember?) and Congressman are mutually incompatible.
Author:  mrokern [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
Andrew Rothman wrote:
chunkstyle wrote:
Wilson's motivation is all about the Rovian trick of distracting from the issue at hand, and making the news cycle about HIM, and not about Obama's plan. This was no impulsive outburst, but a well-planned event.


If that's true, then bravo for him. Theft of news cycle is not a federal crime, nor against House rules, nor should it be.

Quote:
He should be censured, and heavily fined. ($1m + at least.) This should be done by Congress itself, since it was during a Congressional session.


Again, no. The president addressed a joint session of Congress. He does not own that body, and "contempt of (contemptible) president" is no more a crime than "Contempt of cop."

Quote:
What's more, Rep. Wilson is an officer of the National Guard, making Obama not only his President, but also his Commander in Chief. Insubordination and Conduct Unbecoming an Officer charges, anyone? 30 days in the brig might also be in order.


Again and again, no. It is his duty as a congressman to represent his district, even against the president, if necessary. If sassing the president can result in UCMC charges, than the offices of National Guard (a STATE military body, remember?) and Congressman are mutually incompatible.


Although we all know that the National Guard being a "state" body just ain't the case these days. They can be, and are, called up into the National Guard of the United States and are therefore under federal jurisdiction at that point.

I see this whole debacle as similar to the long gun carry. Yes, it feels good for our base.

But guys, need I remind you that we conservatives lost our collective asses in the last election? Why? Because we failed to win over the middle. And guess what...this ain't helping.

I hate to rain on the parade, but what might make us FEEL good and stand up and cheer at the TV isn't what's going to win over the voters we need. GOP needs to learn that, or we're gonna keep losing big.

-Mark
Author:  gunflint [ Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
The GOP hasn't learned a thing in the last 15 years, they're not about to start now. The middle is what wins elections and the left is doing a fine job of alienating them. It's obvious that Michael Steel has no idea what to do here and the lack of any conservative leadership is a complete waste of this once in a generation opportunity to win hearts and minds. The far left would not waste this gift.

Conservatives, true conservatives need to take control of the GOP. We have a realistic shot in 2010 and 2012 but we need to run the RHINO's out of the GOP at the same time. Third parties don't work. ( That's how Franken got in.)

As far as Wilson is concerned, he's apologized and his apology has been accepted. Any further action against him would only anger the center so by all means go after him. What seems to be lost in this whole discussion is the fact that after his outburst the dems changed "the bill" to specifically deny coverage to illegals. I call that a win.
Author:  clemmac [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
I'd never heard of Joe Wilson before I read of his comment on another forum. I think his comment was entirely correct and appropriate, as appropriate as a "BOO !" would have been, just a bit more specific than a "BOO !".

I sent Joe a $25.00 USPS money order to voice my approval :mrgreen:
Author:  Dick Unger [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
Well, what if Obama would have told him to STFU because he waas out of line? If one takes the postion that "the gloves are off", both sides will do the same thing.

It feels good to flip off someone who deserves it, but it never serves any purpose but to give the flippee a valid complaint against the flipper.

This stuff comes from the popular culture of demonizing opponents (ie calling them unAmerican, ect). Just because this crap happens on private TV networks as an altenative to pro wrestling does not mean we can accept such behavior in Congress. :(
Author:  princewally [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
Dick Unger wrote:
Well, what if Obama would have told him to STFU because he waas out of line? If one takes the postion that "the gloves are off", both sides will do the same thing.

It feels good to flip off someone who deserves it, but it never serves any purpose but to give the flippee a valid complaint against the flipper.

This stuff comes from the popular culture of demonizing opponents (ie calling them unAmerican, ect). Just because this crap happens on private TV networks as an altenative to pro wrestling does not mean we can accept such behavior in Congress. :(


It's a shame nobody in Congress took that stance during the previous administration. Kinda makes them all out to be hypocrites.
Author:  gunflint [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
It might sound strange but if Obama would have told Wilson to stfu I would have gained a little more respect for him.
Author:  Scott Hughes [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
Yea man, +1 gunflint
Author:  Nickel pkg [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wilson Yells at President (split: The Pussification of Ameri
There have been a few times in my life where I have called someone a liar, because they were ** LYING! Then I am told it is not nice to call someone a liar. The liar is then exempt from criticism. I never understood that.

Assuming the speaker was lying, I support Joe Wilson. Is it worse to call a liar "a liar", or to sit quietly while the liar lies?!

The democrats are angry over a very brief outburst. When I see how (some) democrats behave, and what they get away with on a regular basis... :roll:

Joe Wilson is like the guy getting a thousand dollar ticket for being 1 MPH over the limit. The speaker is like the mass-murderer getting off scott-free because the arresting officer mispronounced one word of the Miranda warning. (the above analogy is an exaggeration, obviously)

It's like the police telling you you shouldn't shoot the intruder who has you cornered. This was an instance where seconds count, and an uncovered press conference was just minutes away.
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