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usmarine0352
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Post subject: .40 S&W vs. .357 Sig Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:57 am |
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 8:53 am Posts: 239
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.40 S&W vs. .357 Sig for Law Enforcement.
Looking for a caliber that will be the most effetive, (not .45 ACP, since the guns I maybe looking at now aren't in that caliber).
What do you all think?
I need to consider:
1.) Muzzle flip (ability to re-aquire target quickly)
2.) Stopping power/effectiveness.
I am not too concerned about mag capacity.
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:25 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Disclaimer: I've never had the opportunity to shoot a .357 Sig or a 10MM. I Own a M&P 40C.
Performance wise, it sounds like .357 Sig has it all over the .40 S&W. The articles I've read place it solidly between the .40 S&W and the 10MM. It's intended to get the performance of a .357 Magnum round in a Semi-Auto. 125 Gtains at ~1350 FPS. It's not cheap to shoot and may not be available everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W
The highlights:
* Higher pressures than 40 S&W
* Both muzzle flash and noise are significant with standard loads
* Can be reloaded, but NOT from .40S&W brass (too short)
* the SAAMI limit for the .40 cartridge is set at 35,000 PSI, but at 40,000 PSI for the .357 SIG
* potential for overpenetration.
* There has been a documented case in Texas where a police officer's .45 round did not penetrate a tractor-trailer's shell, but a .357 SIG round from a backup officer's gun did, killing the suspect inside.[2] The round's ability to penetrate barriers is the main reason for its adoption by law enforcement agencies.
* The bottleneck shape of the .357 SIG cartridge makes feeding problems almost non-existent.
* One disadvantage of the .357 SIG is that it fires a .355" bullet at higher velocities than most bullets of that caliber are designed for. Very few bullets have been designed specifically for the .357 SIG[...]there are fewer ammunition choices in .357 SIG
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: .40 S&W vs. .357 Sig Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:33 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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usmarine0352 wrote: 1.) Muzzle flip (ability to re-aquire target quickly) 2.) Stopping power/effectiveness.
Unfortunately, the two are almost mutually exclusive. 357 sig is a very high pressure and snappy round.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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1911fan
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:30 pm |
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On time out |
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:18 pm Posts: 1689 Location: 35 W and Hiway 10
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I find the .357 sig to be just fine in a sig, but in a glock it seems to have too much snap for me to be able to keep my normal rhythm in shooting.
Someone had a .357 in a Kimber 1911, using an after market barrel and I really liked that, Very manageable, very fast recovery and you could tell something what happening when it happened. I do not know if Seismic sam has a EAA or Witness in .357, but that might be a good frame to try one in.
_________________ molan labe
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dmr-22
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:42 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:41 pm Posts: 116 Location: Columbia Heights
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I love my glock 33 in 357 for carry but none of my friends can (well enough) or want to shoot it. But they don’t shoot a lot so take it for what its worth. I also have a glock 31 in 357 and 29 in 10mm. The beauty of the 357 or 40 cal question is the answer; both. I know both sig and glock only require barrel changes to change calibers.
_________________ I luv it wen a plan comes 2gether
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Macx
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:17 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Whittier
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If memory serves, the same is true of Springfield's XD's . . .
Only having experience with my XD40, there is that whole mistique of a stopping caliber starting with 4. It is a fun caliber and more law enforcement agencies seem to favor it as the ideal way to pepper Mong houses, slay unruly citizens, and dispatch pets gone bad . . . availability would thus be something firmly in the .40's favor.
_________________ Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438
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mmcnx2
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Post subject: onmore thing to consider Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:37 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 211 Location: Greenfield, MN
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You may also want to look at ammo costs. While there is no cheap ammo, 357 sig is going to put a bigger dent in your wallet than 40 and if your practice alot or get into one of the action shooting clubs you'll feel the difference when you sit down.
One generally accepted view is more is better, however most also agree placement is key. A 22 in the right place will kill you, a 45 in the toe and you're missing a toe, but you still can limp.
Buy what you can shoot best, either one is more than enough for protection.
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Srigs
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am Posts: 3752 Location: East Suburbs
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I have not shot a 357sig but mainly 40 and 9. I like heavier bullets myself but 40 is a perfect overall round for a medium to large carry gun.
_________________ Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
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mostlylawabidingcitizen
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:52 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:54 am Posts: 1242
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Besides price of 357 sig there is also an issue of finding it - availability is challenging sometimes.
Mostly-
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oscarswanson
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Post subject: Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:01 am |
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Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 2:02 pm Posts: 138 Location: Rosemount
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I shoot both the 357 Sig and .40 Cal using my Glock 27. I also shoot the 9MM out of this gun but I only change out the barrel so it's not perfect in 9MM. It is in .40 and 357. Never had a jam after thousands of rounds.
I would say buy a Glock in the frame size you feel best with and get the barrels for the other calibers. Now shoot and find out what you like best.
That's the only way you will know for sure what you like.
A shot of either to the body will do about the same damage.
Here's a link for some 357 Sig ammo at $289.00 a 1,000. Looks to be about the same price as .40 here.
http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm
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someone1980
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Post subject: Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:49 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm Posts: 2305
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The story is still developing as to what really happened, but it is very possible that I just had a pistol destroyed because of a .40->9mm conversion barrel.
If the above is the case, what happened is a high pressure 9mm blew out the bottom of a case. The reason for this is that the ramp on the 9mm needs to be a bit longer, the manfacture appers to have cut into the chamber a bit to make the ramp longer. Then all of a sudden part of the chamber was unsupported. BOOM!
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oscarswanson
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Post subject: Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:56 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 2:02 pm Posts: 138 Location: Rosemount
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Was it a Lone Wolf barrel? Guns blowing up is not a good thing for sure.
Here's a picture of my old P3AT.
If you look close you can see the split just below the black plastics along the barrel.
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someone1980
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Post subject: Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:20 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm Posts: 2305
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I am very interested in seeing what happened to the pistol.
It was a Bar-Sto barrel. And again, everything is a initial, unconfirmed report. I have not had a chance to see it, or have a second opnion yet.
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macphisto
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Post subject: Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:21 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:00 pm Posts: 1013 Location: North Suburbs
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I'm not really adding anything new or groundbreaking, but like the sound of my own voice, err, the look of my own text. Bear with me...
I shot an M&P in 357 Sig when I was very new to handguns (Fall of '06, a month or so before I got my PTC). At the time, I was primarily shooting a Colt revolver in 357 Mag. I perceived the M&P's recoil to be nowhere near that of the revolver.
These days I'm at the range once-per-week and regularly shoot a variety of calibers, but most commonly 45ACP, 9mm, 22LR, 38 Special, 357 Mag, and 380ACP (in that order). I don't own a .40, but have shot plenty of it in other folks' guns.
I don't notice a significant difference in recoil between calibers aside from 22LR and full-house .357 loads. I recently shot an acquaintance's Glock 20 and the thing I really noticed was the thick grip and how the gun just didn't fit my hands, not the recoil.
So what am I saying? I dunno. Shoot a .40 and a 357 Sig side-by-side and see what you think. The numbers on the 357 Sig are impressive and suggest it has a clear advantage over .40. If you can shoot it well and the price of ammo doesn't bother you, go for it. It's the only caliber I've seen knock over a pepper popper (sideways!) at the steel shoots.
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