ATF Agents Burst Into Wrong House ( a BLOCK off!)
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plblark
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Post subject: ATF Agents Burst Into Wrong House ( a BLOCK off!) Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:10 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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http://www.nbc6.net/news/15843682/detail.html
Quote: ATF Agents Burst Into Wrong House Mother, Toddler Inside Home When Officers Enter
POSTED: 9:15 am EDT April 10, 2008 UPDATED: 10:19 pm EDT April 10, 2008
MIAMI -- Officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives barged into a South Florida home Wednesday only to discover they had the wrong address.
The ATF agents were supposed to conduct a raid at a home in the 2600 block of Northwest 49th Terrace in northwest Miami-Dade County, but they were off by one block. They entered a house on Northwest 49th Street instead.
Philomaine Silvain and her 3-year-old son were among the innocent people inside the home when the agents came in.
Silvain pointed out damage to her front door.
"The door's right here," Silvain said. "There's a hole right here. It's broken."
Her back window was also broken from where federal agents fired canisters into the apartment at about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday.
The agents left the tear gas cans in the house, and Silvain kicked them out and into the street before dumping them into the garbage.
No one from the ATF would speak to NBC 6 on camera, but a representative said over the phone that it was an innocent mistake, agents apologized on the scene and ATF would repair any damages.
Silvain's door has already been fixed. However, she said she plans on speaking with a lawyer.
The officers did arrest the man they actually were looking for one street away.
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:27 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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Ok, if an officer on the street were to just randomly spray someone with OC, wouldn't that be criminal assault regardless of the badge?
Couldn't a good lawyer argue the same for the use of tear gas in this case?
-Mark
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EricMN
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:36 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:30 pm Posts: 116 Location: Korea
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mrokern wrote: Ok, if an officer on the street were to just randomly spray someone with OC, wouldn't that be criminal assault regardless of the badge?
Couldn't a good lawyer argue the same for the use of tear gas in this case?
-Mark
Different situations, that's a personal contact, not serving a warrant.
In all honesty, they screwed up. They've owned partially up to it. I think they need to do more, and there is no reason why they couldn't put out a statement saying "Whoops, we're not perfect, we messed up, we will pay for damages and clean the house etc..." The ATF should have left an agent or two there to watch over the property and clean it up (aka remove the canisters)
(And then they need to go invest in a few Garmin GPS units...)
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:39 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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mrokern wrote: Ok, if an officer on the street were to just randomly spray someone with OC, wouldn't that be criminal assault regardless of the badge?
Well, yeah, but if he was trying to spray a criminal and got some on you, it would be an accident. To carry the metaphor further, this is more akin to him grabbing someone he thinks is a criminal and spraying him. A case of mistaken identity.
But really, to get to the heart of the matter, these raids are in theory planned in advance. A cop on the street is very reactionary. The BATman raids are proactive.
I tend to think the BATmen like playing Jack Bauer too much. They like to get intel updated second by second over the cell phone from some guy in a dark room back at CTC.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:57 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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DeanC wrote: mrokern wrote: Ok, if an officer on the street were to just randomly spray someone with OC, wouldn't that be criminal assault regardless of the badge? Well, yeah, but if he was trying to spray a criminal and got some on you, it would be an accident. To carry the metaphor further, this is more akin to him grabbing someone he thinks is a criminal and spraying him. A case of mistaken identity. But really, to get to the heart of the matter, these raids are in theory planned in advance. A cop on the street is very reactionary. The BATman raids are proactive. I tend to think the BATmen like playing Jack Bauer too much. They like to get intel updated second by second over the cell phone from some guy in a dark room back at CTC.
Time for legislators to create the LEO version of malpractice suits.
I'm actually very pro-law enforcement. I'm also very concerned that too many of our CIVILIAN law enforcement agencies are becoming all too military in nature.
-Mark
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:28 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm Posts: 1682 Location: Wright County
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mrokern wrote: Time for legislators to create the LEO version of malpractice suits.
I'm actually very pro-law enforcement. I'm also very concerned that too many of our CIVILIAN law enforcement agencies are becoming all too military in nature.
-Mark
Well said, I don't think I could agree with you more Mark. Maybe the best solution would be to follow Dr. Pauls route of advice and get rid of the BATF?
_________________ Get Off My Lawn.
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:51 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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mrokern wrote: Time for legislators to create the LEO version of malpractice suits.
Sure, and how do you suppose they will fund the either the malpractice insurance premiums and/or the malpractice pool?
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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SultanOfBrunei
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:32 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm Posts: 1743 Location: Lakeville
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DeanC wrote: Sure, and how do you suppose they will fund the either the malpractice insurance premiums and/or the malpractice pool?
Simple, just limit lawsuits to actual damages.
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:53 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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SultanOfBrunei wrote: Simple, just limit lawsuits to actual damages.
Won't work. Provides too little incentive for the citizen and her lawyer to go through all the inconvenience and hassle of suing the BATF.
This would work, though.
1. Full actual damages,
2. Civil penalty in all cases of $100,000 payable to the plaintiff, AND
3. Complete reimbursement for all costs of the litigation
including attorneys' fees.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:22 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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DeanC wrote: mrokern wrote: Time for legislators to create the LEO version of malpractice suits. Sure, and how do you suppose they will fund the either the malpractice insurance premiums and/or the malpractice pool?
Ooo, ooo, I know this one....
Tax hikes?
Good point.
-Mark
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bkrafft
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:12 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:02 pm Posts: 571
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EricMN wrote: In all honesty, they screwed up. They've owned partially up to it. I think they need to do more, and there is no reason why they couldn't put out a statement saying "Whoops, we're not perfect, we messed up, we will pay for damages and clean the house etc..."
But they've hit the incorrect house before, therefore according to their own standards this mistake was <B><I>willful</i></b> and therefore worthy of criminal prosecution.
Just ask Ryan Horsley of Red's Trading Post in Idaho, or any of the other hundreds of dealers they've driven out of business for the heinous crime of putting 'Y' or 'N' on a form instead of writing out 'Yes' or 'No'.
_________________ If the Government does not obey the Constitution, then what is Treason? -- Unknown
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SultanOfBrunei
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:54 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm Posts: 1743 Location: Lakeville
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kimberman wrote: 1. Full actual damages, 2. Civil penalty in all cases of $100,000 payable to the plaintiff, AND 3. Complete reimbursement for all costs of the litigation including attorneys' fees.
You're far too generous!
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1911fan
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:13 pm |
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On time out |
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:18 pm Posts: 1689 Location: 35 W and Hiway 10
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That all works, but really its just us as tax payers paying back us. What will work is Them paying US.
I have said this before. Individual awards are taken from the retirement funds and pay of the individual. dept wide awards come from operations budget. That means no OT, no raises, and maybe paycuts.
THIS and only this hits the guys doing the dumb stuff where it hurts, and it will help break down the blue wall, by costing honest cops money and making them resent the dumb and crooked ones, hopefully resulting in the good ones culling out the bad ones.
I have sat and listened to Minnesota Cops laugh at pay outs, the phrase "thats a tax hike" was frequently repeated when talking about beat downs and mistakes.
_________________ molan labe
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