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A sample of what's coming to Minnesota
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kimberman
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Post subject: A sample of what's coming to Minnesota Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:23 am |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Copied from the Virginia Citizens Defense League report:
Quote: VCDL will STRONGLY OPPOSE ***any*** bill that takes away gun rights from someone who is involuntarily committed to OUTPATIENT treatment. If a person is a real danger to themselves or others it is absolutely ludicrous and a dereliction of duty for the courts to assign them to outpatient treatment! Would mass-murderer Charles Manson have been assigned outpatient treatment? Of course not! He was a true danger to society and was segregated from society as he should be.
If a person has been assigned outpatient treatment, our view is that he cannot be considered a legitimate danger to himself or others, unless government has screwed up again, like they did with Cho.
Here's how it really works: If a judge thinks a person is not a danger, but wants to force him to get some treatment, the judge will rule the person is a "danger" so that the judge can legally commit the person to get outpatient treatment. Thus, games are being play with the term "dangerous" solely to get a legal ability to force someone to get treatment.
You should not lose your rights if you are not adjudicated to be truly dangerous to yourself or others.
Here are the bills that came in today. Out of 18 bills we oppose all but one, and that one we are neutral on.
HB 657, Delegate Griffith, makes a person who is found incompetent to stand trial unable to possess a firearm. We would support this bill, BUT it also says a person who is "involuntarily committed to an outpatient facility" is also banned from possessing a gun. That makes it a non-starter. VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
HB 709, Delegate Janis, bans someone who has been involuntarily committed to inpatient or **outpatient** mental health facilities to be banned from getting a gun. Again, we could support this bill but for the outpatient wording. VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
HB 741, Delegate Caputo, bans someone who has been involuntarily committed to inpatient or **outpatient** mental health facilities to be banned from purchasing, possessing, or transporting a gun FOREVER. VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
HB 815, Delegate Albo, makes a person who has been temporarily detained, but subsequently agrees to voluntarily admit themselves for mental help to be denied their gun rights. Who would want to voluntarily seek help if they have their rights taken away from them? VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
HB 835, Delegate Moran, takes away the right to have a gun for anyone held to be incompetent to stand trial. VCDL could support this bill, but it slips in wording about "involuntary treatment" (outpatient) being a disqualifier for gun ownership. A non-starter. VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
SB 226, Senator McDougle, bans someone who has been involuntarily committed to inpatient or **outpatient** mental health facilities to be banned from getting a gun. Again, we could support this bill but for the outpatient wording. VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
SB 231, Senator McDougle, bans someone who has been involuntarily committed to inpatient or **outpatient** mental health facilities to be banned from purchasing, transporting, or possessing a gun FOREVER. VCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES this bill.
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:09 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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My experience in court was that the real question was really NOT "is he actually a danger to himself and others?..."
But instead "Do we want this guy to go to treatment?"....because then we can get a report from the treatment center about what he says in treatment about himself and his family and everything that is happening in his life. If so, simply make the necessary Findings.
(You can't get along in treatment if you won't talk about matters that will hurt you in court, but, our cooperative subject won't learn that until it's too late.) If you agree to treatment, have a lawyer establish the ground rules.
We can send him to treatment if we simply make the necessary finding at a preliminary hearing. The treatment center will tend to support the court's finding with an Evaluation.
As always, if a person has counsel from the start, unfair results are much less likely. These hearings may seem harmless and even friendly, so people don't get lawyers, thinking it'll be over more quickly if they don't.
They're wrong.
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Pakrat
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:01 am |
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Forum Moderator/<br>AV Geek |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am Posts: 2422 Location: Hopkins, MN
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7 bills dealing with the same subject... Sounds like people are padding the ol' resume.
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Scott Hughes
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:00 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 1525 Location: Isanti, MN
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Dick Unger wrote: As always, if a person has counsel from the start, unfair results are much less likely. These hearings may seem harmless and even friendly, so people don't get lawyers, thinking it'll be over more quickly if they don't. They're wrong.
Thanks so much Dick. The more I here this the deeper ( I PRAY) it sinks in.
_________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -
WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:43 am |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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It's moving in Virginia and Minnesota DFLers are watching it closely.
Virginia May Alter Mental-Health System: A package of bills to reform the state's mental health system in the wake of the Virginia Tech tragedy passed unanimously out of a Senate committee yesterday, while others made their way through the House. The Senate omnibus bill would loosen Virginia's tough standards for involuntary commitment, require better monitoring of those receiving outpatient treatment to make sure they get the treatment that is ordered and allow better sharing of mental health records. The legislation and others in the Senate and House are attempts to reform a mental health system that has come under increased scrutiny since a mentally disturbed student killed 32 students and faculty members and then himself at Virginia Tech in April.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/ ... 88184/1004
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:15 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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The out patient 'treatment" recommended (and ordered by the court) is always just a laundry list of whatever local programs exist, and is whatever the current reimbusement system will pay for. One size (or reimbursement code) fits all.
Sort of like our current physical health care, it'll be driven by the reimbursement system, not the patient.
The courts will rubber stamp the recommendations, and 99% of the cases will go right through as a formality. Hire 3rd year law students, just to put on a show.
Back to the Cuckoo's Nest days......
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:56 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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Dick Unger wrote: Back to the Cuckoo's Nest days......
No, they can't afford that. Try court mandated pharmaceuticals.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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[ 7 posts ] |
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