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URGENT: Hunter "convenience" bill SCREWS metro re
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peckerhead
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:19 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:11 am Posts: 69 Location: In limbo....
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Emails sent to all three.
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:29 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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peckerhead wrote: Traveler wrote: What is with this Cornish person? His logic line just does not make it: Because I did (*) I can now do (*).
That would be very much like a teenage boy telling a neighbor father: I cut your lawn. Now I will violate your daughter.
Politicians are all cut from the same cloth. They can never, ever, be trusted. Agreed.
Cornish is one of the good guys. He's trying to fix the gun case law; he can get it done for hunters in hunting situations and the "metro exception" appears like a reasonable and inocuous amendment , because otherwise the Metro legislators will block the bill.
The problem is not Cornish's "logic", it's that the anti's will be able to use the Metro exception as a starting point to divide and conquer the gun lobby in the future. We'd rather have gun laws consistant through out the state. Cornish didn't see that coming and 95% of gunnies would not have seen that coming either.
These knee jerk personal attacks on friendly politicos are not helpful to the cause. It makes us all sound like gun issues belong to right wing crazies, who are currently being ignored by all politicos.
If you don't like Cornish, fine. Me, I think over all he's too conservative. But he's a logical guy, dedicated to his work, and has good will toward everyone in the State. If he only worried about himself, he'd stay a mile away from a gun law change, just like 95% of the politicos.
We're damn lucky to have him in the legislature and he deserves polite treatment.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:20 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Yup. And while I'm not going to quote from private email, my own emails to Tony were, while (as the diplomats say) frank and candid, also respectful, because, as I explicitly said, he's earned it. He's not evil; he was just wrong on this.
_________________ Just a guy.
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sigman
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:04 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am Posts: 1317 Location: Racine, MN
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Instead of blaming Tony for this, we should be blaming the anti-gun metro legislators who insist on adding this B.S. to the bill. Usually, they are sticking it to rural Minnesotans, this time it is their own constituents. Hopefully, the gun rights community can stay unified and defeat this bill. I would rather case my gun than see the camel's nose under the tent.
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:05 am |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Remember, the MAN IN CHARGE, the bill's chief author is Rep. David Dill. He, and he alone, can "pull" the uncased/unloaded bill at his pleasure. If he asks, they'll take it out and it will be dead. Rep. Cornish is playing in a supporting role here.
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:34 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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I think Cornish is getting attention in this because he is responding. I DON'T want him to quit responding, I'd like Rep Dill to START responding.
Rep Cornish is a good elegislator who is on our side on guns. The Antis did this and the issue is: Is Dill willing to accept this poison pil just to pass a convenience bill?
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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boomingmetropolis
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:08 am |
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 12:03 pm Posts: 173 Location: I'll get back to you on that
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sigman wrote: Instead of blaming Tony for this, we should be blaming the anti-gun metro legislators who insist on adding this B.S. to the bill. Usually, they are sticking it to rural Minnesotans, this time it is their own constituents. Hopefully, the gun rights community can stay unified and defeat this bill. I would rather case my gun than see the camel's nose under the tent.
Precisely! And this is what I specifically mentioned in my emails. This is just ANOTHER in a long line of attempts(as was previously noted by Prof Olson) by metrocrats to incrementally do what they dare not do overtly. Gun control. Doesn't make any difference how they try to camouflage the pig, this still stinks.
_________________ To expect bad men not to do wrong is madness, for he who expects this desires an impossiblity. But to allow men to behave so to others and expect them not to do thee any wrong is irrational and tyranical. Marcus Aurelius
I won't mind if you call me a racist. And I'm sure YOU won't mind if I call you a target of opportunity.
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peckerhead
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:48 am |
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:11 am Posts: 69 Location: In limbo....
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Dick Unger wrote: peckerhead wrote: Traveler wrote: What is with this Cornish person? His logic line just does not make it: Because I did (*) I can now do (*).
That would be very much like a teenage boy telling a neighbor father: I cut your lawn. Now I will violate your daughter.
Politicians are all cut from the same cloth. They can never, ever, be trusted. Agreed. Cornish is one of the good guys. He's trying to fix the gun case law; he can get it done for hunters in hunting situations and the "metro exception" appears like a reasonable and inocuous amendment , because otherwise the Metro legislators will block the bill. The problem is not Cornish's "logic", it's that the anti's will be able to use the Metro exception as a starting point to divide and conquer the gun lobby in the future. We'd rather have gun laws consistant through out the state. Cornish didn't see that coming and 95% of gunnies would not have seen that coming either. These knee jerk personal attacks on friendly politicos are not helpful to the cause. It makes us all sound like gun issues belong to right wing crazies, who are currently being ignored by all politicos. If you don't like Cornish, fine. Me, I think over all he's too conservative. But he's a logical guy, dedicated to his work, and has good will toward everyone in the State. If he only worried about himself, he'd stay a mile away from a gun law change, just like 95% of the politicos. We're damn lucky to have him in the legislature and he deserves polite treatment.
You're right. I was just pissed off, and spouting off at the mouth a little there.
My emails to all three were very respectful.
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Traveler
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:47 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
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peckerhead wrote: Dick Unger wrote: peckerhead wrote: Traveler wrote: What is with this Cornish person? His logic line just does not make it: Because I did (*) I can now do (*).
That would be very much like a teenage boy telling a neighbor father: I cut your lawn. Now I will violate your daughter.
Politicians are all cut from the same cloth. They can never, ever, be trusted. Agreed. Cornish is one of the good guys. He's trying to fix the gun case law; he can get it done for hunters in hunting situations and the "metro exception" appears like a reasonable and inocuous amendment , because otherwise the Metro legislators will block the bill. The problem is not Cornish's "logic", it's that the anti's will be able to use the Metro exception as a starting point to divide and conquer the gun lobby in the future. We'd rather have gun laws consistant through out the state. Cornish didn't see that coming and 95% of gunnies would not have seen that coming either. These knee jerk personal attacks on friendly politicos are not helpful to the cause. It makes us all sound like gun issues belong to right wing crazies, who are currently being ignored by all politicos. If you don't like Cornish, fine. Me, I think over all he's too conservative. But he's a logical guy, dedicated to his work, and has good will toward everyone in the State. If he only worried about himself, he'd stay a mile away from a gun law change, just like 95% of the politicos. We're damn lucky to have him in the legislature and he deserves polite treatment. You're right. I was just pissed off, and spouting off at the mouth a little there. My emails to all three were very respectful.
I have sent two emails regarding this issue. One to Cornish, the other to Dill. I was also respectful, but I stand by my previous post here. The "hero" politician of today can turn in an instant for the sake of political expediency. I sincerely believe they are all cut from the same cloth and none should ever be trusted.
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bab
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:09 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:48 pm Posts: 358
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Dick Unger wrote: A good way to think about this bill, might be to imagine how the new"gun case law" would be explained in the Hunting Regulations, and Firearns Safety Training. The regs would explain and define the "Seven County Metro" area as a special area. Probably, there would be a map showing the precise boundaries of the "Metro Gun Transport Zone" along with a description of the boundaries. Minnesota gun owners would learn the concept of gun laws being different in the Metro vs " Greater(?) Minnesota". The law would, naturally enough, have to be covered in Firearms Training, so youngsters would be taught that the Metro Gun Transport Zone is "special". The instructers would, of course, have to justify the rule; imagine the discussion in these classes. Firearms Safety Instructors would be teaching the benefits of gun conrol laws. Next session Duluth and Rochester will want to be special as well. The session after that, every hamlet will want to decide for themselves whether or not they are "special". And it won't be limited to gun transport, they'll be special in other ways as well. We've got to hang together. Kimberman is really right about this, I'm pretty sure, although it took awhile for me, (a rural gun case hater), to come around.
I believe you have this exactly right
Kimberman, thank you for staying on top of this (and other) important issues.
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Saunassa
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:56 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:53 pm Posts: 74 Location: Up Nort'
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from what i have read in the OP initial posting and gathered over the other postings is that this was an ok bill but as it moved through committees it was perverted and now potentially damaging to us in the p2c community. maybe not now but in a few years it could be used in many more communities around the state.
there is no dotted line around all of the counties showing exactly which one you are in or the town limits. what happens if the field/hunting area overlaps into a metro area county? would you then be in violation?
_________________ "A cubicle is nothing more than a padded cell without a door"
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:20 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Saunassa wrote: there is no dotted line around all of the counties showing exactly which one you are in or the town limits. what happens if the field/hunting area overlaps into a metro area county? would you then be in violation?
YES.
Last edited by kimberman on Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:28 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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Got a response from Seifert just now:
Quote: Hi Dean,
Thank you for contacting me in regard to splitting gun rights based on region.
This is the first time that I've seen this language and certainly want to work with the author of this legislation to make sure gun rights are protected for everyone.
There's a dead pheasant that looks great just a few feet from this computer and I'd like to know that people's rights are protected, regardless of where they live or hunt.
I appreciate your comments and concerns and will track down the authors to find out what is going on.
Sincerely,
Rep. Marty Seifert
Representative Marty Seifert Minority Leader 267 State Office Building 100 Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. Saint Paul, Minnesota 55155
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:34 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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DeanC wrote: Got a response from Seifert just now: Quote: Hi Dean,
Thank you for contacting me in regard to splitting gun rights based on region.
This is the first time that I've seen this language and certainly want to work with the author of this legislation to make sure gun rights are protected for everyone.
There's a dead pheasant that looks great just a few feet from this computer and I'd like to know that people's rights are protected, regardless of where they live or hunt.
I appreciate your comments and concerns and will track down the authors to find out what is going on.
Sincerely,
Rep. Marty Seifert
Representative Marty Seifert Minority Leader 267 State Office Building 100 Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. Saint Paul, Minnesota 55155 Other than the dead pheasant bit, I got an identical reply. Mary Liz Holberg is also in agreement. Quote: Hear! Hear!
I agree.
ML
Representative Mary Liz Holberg
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:36 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Larry Haws wrote: Paul,
Thanks for your detailed email and you do make some significant points.. I will keep your email in mind if HF 128 bill reaches the floor for a vote..Larry Haws
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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