Author |
Message |
sigman
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:50 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am Posts: 1317 Location: Racine, MN
|
That is good news. keep up the good work and thanks to everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
nyffman
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:14 am |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:19 pm Posts: 265 Location: MN
|
I noticed tonight that four more legislators had their names removed from the bill. They are Abeler, Berns, Dittrich and Lillie. Someone tell me how common this is for names to be removed from the list of authors.
_________________ Most problems are caused by solutions
Last edited by nyffman on Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
tman065
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:30 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
|
Jeremiah wrote: I took some wording from you guys (hopefully, you don't mind) and wrote my representative (a former co-worker):
In doing some reading over the weekend, I came across a bill currently in the House which gives me some cause for concern: HF 184, a bill to modify the definition of "burglary" in state law.
While, on the surface, the bill seems to merely raise the penalties for burglars, as in the following excerpt, it also would make some much greater changes that neither the authors nor the Legislature intended, I hope.
The bill reads, in part:
Subd. 2. Burglary in the second degree. Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both, if: (a) the building is a dwelling, government building, religious establishment, or school building
The way I read it, an essential element of burglary is entering without consenet.
If you are in a public building such as a school during the hours the school is normally open to the public, you cannot be committing a burglary, unless you have been specifically prohibited from being there.
If you are carrying a firearm without permission, that is the crime. There is still no burglary.
just my 2 cents
Tman065
|
|
|
|
|
kimberman
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:14 am |
|
Wise Elder |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
|
nyffman wrote: I noticed tonight that four more legislators had their names removed from the bill. They are Abeler, Berns, Dittrich and Lillie. Someone tell me how common this is for names to be removed from the list of authors. The way I read it is that there was an attempt at pulling something unmentionable under the cover of darkness and the cockroaches started scurrying when the light was shined on this. And, before anyone fires back a nastygram, "cockroaches" is meant as a figure of speach, not a slur on the character of any individual legislator.
Please do not attack those who ultimately take the pro-gun position. The dynamic over there is that they "glance" at the bill and listen to the author's sales speel before signing on. Then they learn what it does (or who opposes it) and get off. Having co-authors pull off of your bill DOES get the author's attention. As in this case, it's a good thing because the author now wants to fix the problem. They are, in no sense of the matter "cockroaches."
|
|
|
|
|
nyffman
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:21 am |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:19 pm Posts: 265 Location: MN
|
Noted. And, thanks for the insight on how this process works.
_________________ Most problems are caused by solutions
|
|
|
|
|
joelr
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:24 pm |
|
The Man |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
Learning experience good.
Never let it be said that I'm unwilling to take a controversial position, eh?
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
|
nyffman
|
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:07 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:19 pm Posts: 265 Location: MN
|
Well, that's right. I'll just leave it at that for now. Keep those cards and letters coming.
_________________ Most problems are caused by solutions
|
|
|
|
|
Cam
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:25 am |
|
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:37 am Posts: 51
|
Thank you for making us aware of these bills. I would never have known. This shows how effective this forum can be in communicating critical information. I will be getting in touch with my representatives.
|
|
|
|
|
Cam
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:30 am |
|
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:37 am Posts: 51
|
tman065 wrote: Jeremiah wrote: I took some wording from you guys (hopefully, you don't mind) and wrote my representative (a former co-worker):
In doing some reading over the weekend, I came across a bill currently in the House which gives me some cause for concern: HF 184, a bill to modify the definition of "burglary" in state law.
While, on the surface, the bill seems to merely raise the penalties for burglars, as in the following excerpt, it also would make some much greater changes that neither the authors nor the Legislature intended, I hope.
The bill reads, in part:
Subd. 2. Burglary in the second degree. Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both, if: (a) the building is a dwelling, government building, religious establishment, or school building
The way I read it, an essential element of burglary is entering without consenet. If you are in a public building such as a school during the hours the school is normally open to the public, you cannot be committing a burglary, unless you have been specifically prohibited from being there. If you are carrying a firearm without permission, that is the crime. There is still no burglary. just my 2 cents Tman065
Anybody care to comment on tman065's take on this? It seems to make sense and it seems to change the implications of the bill slightly.
|
|
|
|
|
kimberman
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:56 am |
|
Wise Elder |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
|
The courts have read the phrase "without consent' very broadly. Walking past a "no weapons" sign might be sufficient. Who wants to be the test case?
|
|
|
|
|
hammAR
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:48 pm |
|
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:54 pm Posts: 1941 Location: N 44°56.621` W 093°11.256 (St Paul)
|
...add to that "with intent to commit a crime", as far as I know Tresspass is a crime, thus walking past a posted sign "without consent' and obviously "with intent" could easily be interpreted, by a "judge" of a certain persuasion, as guilty..
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:54 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
This will give tremendous bargaining ability to the prosecution for any crime in public buildings. Concievably even a peaceful demonstration could be charged as a felony. A bad law altogether IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
SethB
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:58 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:02 pm Posts: 818 Location: downtown Mpls
|
hammAR wrote: ...add to that "with intent to commit a crime", as far as I know Tresspass is a crime, thus walking past a posted sign "without consent' and obviously "with intent" could easily be interpreted, by a "judge" of a certain persuasion, as guilty..
But if your intent is to leave if asked, then you have no intent to violate the law (which only requires that you leave when asked).
|
|
|
|
|
Jeremiah
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:31 am |
|
Raving Moderate |
|
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Posts: 1292 Location: Minneapolis
|
Update: Met with my rep. (Carolyn Laine) on Friday- she's going to look into possible changes to the bill. Her general response, upon looking the text over, was to the effect of "Why are we doing this? Isn't that already a crime?" I explained our concerns, and she seemed quite sensitive to them.
_________________ I'm liberal, pro-choice, and I carry a gun. Any questions?
My real name is Jeremiah (go figure).
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:11 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
Jeremiah wrote: Update: Met with my rep. (Carolyn Laine) on Friday- she's going to look into possible changes to the bill. Her general response, upon looking the text over, was to the effect of "Why are we doing this? Isn't that already a crime?" I explained our concerns, and she seemed quite sensitive to them.
It's already a crime to commit crimes. This kind of thing just makes it harder a defendant to plead innocent. You have to accept a plea bargain or spend all your money fighting and lose your civil rights if you lose. All over misdemeanor stuff.
But nobody usually will appear and oppose things like this.
|
|
|
|
|
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|