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 Did anyone spot these? 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:50 am 
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That is good news. keep up the good work and thanks to everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:14 am 
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I noticed tonight that four more legislators had their names removed from the bill. They are Abeler, Berns, Dittrich and Lillie. Someone tell me how common this is for names to be removed from the list of authors.

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Last edited by nyffman on Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:30 am 
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Jeremiah wrote:
I took some wording from you guys (hopefully, you don't mind) and wrote my representative (a former co-worker):

In doing some reading over the weekend, I came across a bill currently in the House which gives me some cause for concern: HF 184, a bill to modify the definition of "burglary" in state law.

While, on the surface, the bill seems to merely raise the penalties for burglars, as in the following excerpt, it also would make some much greater changes that neither the authors nor the Legislature intended, I hope.

The bill reads, in part:

Subd. 2. Burglary in the second degree. Whoever enters a building without
consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and
commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits
burglary in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than
ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both, if:
(a) the building is a dwelling, government building, religious establishment, or school building




The way I read it, an essential element of burglary is entering without consenet.

If you are in a public building such as a school during the hours the school is normally open to the public, you cannot be committing a burglary, unless you have been specifically prohibited from being there.

If you are carrying a firearm without permission, that is the crime. There is still no burglary.

just my 2 cents

Tman065


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:14 am 
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nyffman wrote:
I noticed tonight that four more legislators had their names removed from the bill. They are Abeler, Berns, Dittrich and Lillie. Someone tell me how common this is for names to be removed from the list of authors. The way I read it is that there was an attempt at pulling something unmentionable under the cover of darkness and the cockroaches started scurrying when the light was shined on this. And, before anyone fires back a nastygram, "cockroaches" is meant as a figure of speach, not a slur on the character of any individual legislator.


Please do not attack those who ultimately take the pro-gun position. The dynamic over there is that they "glance" at the bill and listen to the author's sales speel before signing on. Then they learn what it does (or who opposes it) and get off. Having co-authors pull off of your bill DOES get the author's attention. As in this case, it's a good thing because the author now wants to fix the problem. They are, in no sense of the matter "cockroaches."


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:21 am 
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Noted. :oops: And, thanks for the insight on how this process works.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:24 pm 
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Learning experience good.

Never let it be said that I'm unwilling to take a controversial position, eh?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:07 pm 
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Well, that's right. I'll just leave it at that for now. Keep those cards and letters coming.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:25 am 
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Thank you for making us aware of these bills. I would never have known. This shows how effective this forum can be in communicating critical information. I will be getting in touch with my representatives.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:30 am 
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tman065 wrote:
Jeremiah wrote:
I took some wording from you guys (hopefully, you don't mind) and wrote my representative (a former co-worker):

In doing some reading over the weekend, I came across a bill currently in the House which gives me some cause for concern: HF 184, a bill to modify the definition of "burglary" in state law.

While, on the surface, the bill seems to merely raise the penalties for burglars, as in the following excerpt, it also would make some much greater changes that neither the authors nor the Legislature intended, I hope.

The bill reads, in part:

Subd. 2. Burglary in the second degree. Whoever enters a building without
consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and
commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits
burglary in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than
ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both, if:
(a) the building is a dwelling, government building, religious establishment, or school building




The way I read it, an essential element of burglary is entering without consenet.

If you are in a public building such as a school during the hours the school is normally open to the public, you cannot be committing a burglary, unless you have been specifically prohibited from being there.

If you are carrying a firearm without permission, that is the crime. There is still no burglary.

just my 2 cents

Tman065

Anybody care to comment on tman065's take on this? It seems to make sense and it seems to change the implications of the bill slightly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:56 am 
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The courts have read the phrase "without consent' very broadly. Walking past a "no weapons" sign might be sufficient. Who wants to be the test case?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:48 pm 
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...add to that "with intent to commit a crime", as far as I know Tresspass is a crime, thus walking past a posted sign "without consent' and obviously "with intent" could easily be interpreted, by a "judge" of a certain persuasion, as guilty.. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:54 pm 
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This will give tremendous bargaining ability to the prosecution for any crime in public buildings. Concievably even a peaceful demonstration could be charged as a felony. A bad law altogether IMHO.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:58 pm 
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hammAR wrote:
...add to that "with intent to commit a crime", as far as I know Tresspass is a crime, thus walking past a posted sign "without consent' and obviously "with intent" could easily be interpreted, by a "judge" of a certain persuasion, as guilty.. :roll:

But if your intent is to leave if asked, then you have no intent to violate the law (which only requires that you leave when asked).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:31 am 
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Update: Met with my rep. (Carolyn Laine) on Friday- she's going to look into possible changes to the bill. Her general response, upon looking the text over, was to the effect of "Why are we doing this? Isn't that already a crime?" I explained our concerns, and she seemed quite sensitive to them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:11 am 
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Jeremiah wrote:
Update: Met with my rep. (Carolyn Laine) on Friday- she's going to look into possible changes to the bill. Her general response, upon looking the text over, was to the effect of "Why are we doing this? Isn't that already a crime?" I explained our concerns, and she seemed quite sensitive to them.


It's already a crime to commit crimes. This kind of thing just makes it harder a defendant to plead innocent. You have to accept a plea bargain or spend all your money fighting and lose your civil rights if you lose. All over misdemeanor stuff.

But nobody usually will appear and oppose things like this.


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