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 Rybak attacks gun dealers 
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 Post subject: Rybak attacks gun dealers
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:50 am 
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Having successfully driven all LEGITIMATE gun dealers out of Minneapolis, Mayor Rybak shoots his mouth off again.

From the Strib's BUZZ section.

This just in from Mayor R.T. Rybak's spokesman, Jeremy Hanson:

Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak last week joined more than fifty U.S. Mayors from around the country to call on the new Congress to get tough on illegal gun sales by eliminating federal restrictions to data on guns used in crimes.

“There are too many guns in our city, in our state and in our country,” Rybak said. “Month after month our police officers seize record amounts of guns from our streets and month after month more guns show up in our city. Last year alone, Minneapolis police seized nearly 1,300 guns from our streets. This is a national problem that must be addressed at a national level.”

Yesterday in Washington, DC Mayor Rybak and mayors from around the country gathered to discuss ways to combat the sale, use and possession of illegal guns. The Summit was the first meeting of the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition since being created in April 2006. As a result of that first meeting, Mayor Rybak and fifteen other mayors from across the signed a Statement of Principles pledging to fight illegal guns and build a coalition of leaders from across the country to eliminate federal restrictions on access to data on guns used in crimes.

“We will fight hard to get guns off the streets of Minneapolis and we will fight hard with other mayors to change federal laws that give too much protection to the peddlers of deadly, illegal guns,” Rybak said. “By using data to trace guns used in crimes, we can identify those gun dealers who are the worst offenders of illegal gun sales and take enforcement action against them.”

It is estimated that only one percent of gun dealers account for sixty percent of all guns used in crimes. If allowed access to “trace data,” law enforcement officials can track guns used in crimes back to the seller, providing valuable evidence that helps to solve crimes. However, in recent years, Congress has limited cities’ access to this trace data, prohibiting local law enforcement from key criminal evidence.

“Mayors from cities big and small, from across the political spectrum, agree it’s time to start finding common ground on real solutions to this problem and get tough on those small minority of gun sellers who repeatedly violate the law and put our cities in harms way,” Rybak said.

“We face a serious crime problem in our city that is driven by illegal gun possession. We need tougher gun laws and we will fight for them. Our fight against illegal guns needs to reach beyond the borders of Minneapolis and beyond the borders of partisanship,” Rybak said. “This country needs to maximize penalties for those who posses, use and traffic in illegal guns, and hold the worst gun dealers accountable for their actions.”


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:09 am 
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Well, does he actually know the names of any of these "bad" gun dealers? Or did he just pull this out of his a$$? Cause if they actually find FFL's that are breaking the law, they really should toss them in jail.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:11 am 
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Quote:
"We face a serious crime problem in our city that is driven by illegal gun possession. We need tougher gun laws and we will fight for them. Our fight against illegal guns needs to reach beyond the borders of Minneapolis and beyond the borders of partisanship,” Rybak said. “This country needs to maximize penalties for those who posses, use and traffic in illegal guns, and hold the worst gun dealers accountable for their actions.”

Hey RT! Why not try a new original approach, like locking up criminals! Duh!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:23 am 
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RT is a Socialist SOB. He and his ilk propose law after law, regulation after regulation. This makes them look like they are really doing something. Redundant laws do not solve problems, enforcement of laws gets results. He needs a scapegoat to go after in order for him to cover up his own incompetence (City Council included). Understanding of the truth of the crime problems is beyond the intellect of this lot.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:35 pm 
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My full E-Mail to RT

Quote:
While I commend the thoughts of getting illegal guns off the streets, after acting above the law, Mayor Bloomberg seems to be losing favor.

I send this to you, purely for information purposes, please feel free to contact Mayor B Wolf of Williamsport PA at 570-327-7566.

Thankyou for your time and I look foreward to reading your names along with Mayor Wolf, in abandonning Mayor Bloombergs coalition.

Officials do not get an opinion on a civil right, ie, the 2nd ammendment, the court of appeals has just ruled in DC. They get their instructions, and oath of office binds the official to defending what the court just announced. You have no wiggle room or latitude for creative governance on this subject. No official does.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Williamsport, PA Mayor Mary B. Wolf has quit New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" coalition, telling the Second Amendment Foundation in a letter that she joined in hopes of finding "community based solutions to reduce gun violence."

However, in a letter to Bloomberg -- a copy of which Mayor Wolf forwarded to SAF founder Alan M. Gottlieb -- she told Bloomberg, "I have learned that the Coalition may be working on issues that conflict with legal gun ownership and that some actions on your behalf are dubious."

Mayor Wolf joins several other mayors who have withdrawn from Bloomberg's coalition. Last month, after Bloomberg's office was advised by the Justice Department against conducting any more "gun shop sting" operations, Gottlieb sent an open letter to all mayors who had joined the anti-gun group, urging them to reconsider their involvement, which might be associated with Bloomberg's vigilante anti-gun activities.

"I am grateful that Mayor Wolf took a second look at Bloomberg's coalition," Gottlieb stated, "and that she thoughtfully advised SAF of her decision. Like several other mayors who think for themselves and the constituents who are their friends and neighbors, Mayor Wolf has demonstrated the kind of leadership that will set her apart from those who have been beguiled by Bloomberg's media hype."

In her letter to Gottlieb, Mayor Wolf said that, in her opinion, "It was always clear that licensed gun dealers, sportsmen, gun collectors and other similarly situated individuals were not part of the problem ... "

Meanwhile, in her letter to Bloomberg, Mayor Wolf was straightforward, noting, "The intent of the coalition was well-founded but current initiatives seem counterproductive to ... reduce the criminal misuse of firearms."

"It takes a special quality and a certain amount of political courage to go against the current of political correctness and media favoritism," Gottlieb said. "Hers is the example that fellow mayors ought to follow, not Bloomberg's."


Source: Second Amendment Foundation

Thankyou again for your time Gentlemen


Quote:
Thank you Jeremy but please know I am rock solid behind Mayor Bloomberg’s efforts.

The key here is that Mayors must be united in our attempt to get illegal guns off the street. Not everyone will have the same strategy but our goals are completely aligned
.


:roll: :roll: :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:57 pm 
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Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Quote:
"We face a serious crime problem in our city that is driven by illegal gun possession. We need tougher gun laws and we will fight for them. Our fight against illegal guns needs to reach beyond the borders of Minneapolis and beyond the borders of partisanship,” Rybak said. “This country needs to maximize penalties for those who posses, use and traffic in illegal guns, and hold the worst gun dealers accountable for their actions.”

Hey RT! Why not try a new original approach, like locking up criminals! Duh!


There you go again using logic and common sense! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:15 pm 
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Well, since there are no gundealers in Rybak's city anymore, really all he's doing is airing out his gums. Unless he's talking about forbidding gunshows at the Convention Center? I doubt it, even Rybak has his masters.

Someone should write him and ask which gundealers, specifically, he's referring to... Names, addresses. His response should tell us just how much smoke he's blowing.


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 Post subject: 1% of gun dealers?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:40 pm 
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One question I have:

The statement:

Quote:
It is estimated that only one percent of gun dealers account for sixty percent of all guns used in crimes.


A) Is this true or even remotely close to true? If not, why does this statistic seem to pop up in every stolen-guns story and who does it favor?

B) If it IS true, why hasn't BATF investigated this and done something about it? I don't harbour any illusions about guns on the street going away, but hey, I wouldn't complain, either, if the price of a back-alley 9mm went up $2-300 bucks.

Federal prosecution of existing felon-with-guns laws is probably a good idea -- long prison sentences for criminals with guns has to be an improvement on the short sentences theyre likely to get for the principal crimes they commit.

C) Or am I failing to adequately read behind the lines here, and that perhaps there's some kind of crypto-Libertarianism that's trying to eliminate or prevent gun sales regulations and their attendent records, oversight and overzealous enforcement?

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, either, but it seems like a tougher sell and it seems to give away the "tough on crime" stance to the Democrats when jailing criminal gun users for their gun crime sounds like a pretty winning idea.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:53 pm 
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I have noticed that, in news conferences, if a politician can't answer the question that was asked, he or she will answer with something vaguely related to the question for which they do have an answer.

I don't think RTY has a clue as to how to tackle Minneapolis' crime problem. I'm not convinced that there is AN answer, but rather a very large, very expensive, and very complex set of answers. RTY doesn't have the time, the resources or the stomach for examining the problem with any new or different thinking. Sooooooooo, instead he drags out the chestnut that the problem is too many guns.

Close, but no cigar. The problem is that too many of the wrong people have guns--and they're not going to gunshops to buy them. That's why we call such people criminals. Passing more restrictive laws will not inconvenience the criminals, who will cheerfully ignore the new laws as blatantly as they disobey existing laws.

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 Post subject: Re: 1% of gun dealers?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:59 pm 
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mobocracy wrote:
One question I have:

The statement:

Quote:
It is estimated that only one percent of gun dealers account for sixty percent of all guns used in crimes.


A) Is this true or even remotely close to true? If not, why does this statistic seem to pop up in every stolen-guns story and who does it favor?

B) If it IS true, why hasn't BATF investigated this and done something about it? I don't harbour any illusions about guns on the street going away, but hey, I wouldn't complain, either, if the price of a back-alley 9mm went up $2-300 bucks.

Federal prosecution of existing felon-with-guns laws is probably a good idea -- long prison sentences for criminals with guns has to be an improvement on the short sentences theyre likely to get for the principal crimes they commit.

C) Or am I failing to adequately read behind the lines here, and that perhaps there's some kind of crypto-Libertarianism that's trying to eliminate or prevent gun sales regulations and their attendent records, oversight and overzealous enforcement?

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, either, but it seems like a tougher sell and it seems to give away the "tough on crime" stance to the Democrats when jailing criminal gun users for their gun crime sounds like a pretty winning idea.

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that the 1% represents the biggest 1% of all gun shops by by sales volume.

Years ago, I remember an article which named Bill's Gun Shop as the #1 seller of illegal guns, that is guns that were used in a crime. The reason I came to find out was because Bill's sold more guns than anyone else. The percentage of guns was about equal with everyone else but because they sold more guns the number which ended up misused was higher.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:13 am 
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Old Dude wrote:
I'm not convinced that there is AN answer, but rather a very large, very expensive, and very complex set of answers.
The one that is proven to work for very little money is severe and long senetnaces in tents, outdoors with hard labour. Not the Minnesota criminal coddling sytem.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:52 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:56 pm 
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Fact is....... as long as there is a black market for something, it will be available. Look at Prohibition. Harsh sentences, no more "reformist" judges and it will diminish. I don't see it ever going away. Look at England. They banned guns, the criminals switched to knives. They banned knives, they switched to swords. (Seems kind of backwards, but...) All in all, until he convinces the judges to stop the revolving door, he's fighting a losing battle.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:04 pm 
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BigRobT wrote:
Fact is....... as long as there is a black market for something, it will be available. Look at Prohibition. Harsh sentences, no more "reformist" judges and it will diminish. I don't see it ever going away. Look at England. They banned guns, the criminals switched to knives. They banned knives, they switched to swords. (Seems kind of backwards, but...) All in all, until he convinces the judges to stop the revolving door, he's fighting a losing battle.


No they didn't, they bought black market guns and converted replicas.
The Home office believe there are over 2 million illegal guns on the streets. Prior to the 1997 collection, it was estimated that there were about 250,000 illegal guns on the streets. That's an 800% increase. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:36 am 
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Most criminals who are legally banned from owning a firearm get them from relatives and friends. The real criminal is the one who legally bought the gun from a dealer and then placed it in the hands of the criminal. Dealers try to avoid these "straw purchases," but can never be sure where that firearm is going once it leaves the premises. It stands to reason that a large dealer, with an extremely large volume of sales, would have a better chance of having sold a firearm used in a crime. Bloomberg and the Brady bunch did not take that into consideration when they named the 1% of the dealers selling firearms used in a crime. The ATF does realize this. I do not personally know any dealer who wants to see friearms in the hands of criminals. I have no respect for any mayor who would join Bloomberg in his witch hunt.


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