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Restraining Order Questions
http://www.ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14236		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rand McNally [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Restraining Order Questions
Ok, maybe a little off topic...

My ex-wife is pretty vidictive. She has lost a couple of court cases recently and her and her husband have really started ramping up the pressure to provoke a confrontation. The only time we have any sort of interaction is when we are exchanging my son. I WILL NOT do anything that would endanger my son or cause him any undue stress. However, I have a sneaky suspision that since their previous attempts have failed to provoke me, her next attempt will be a restraining order. She has no reason to get on, but she is a good liar so ...

How difficult is it to get one?

What happens to my carry permit?

Can I fight it?

Nothing has been filed yet, I just have a feeling she will come to this sooner rather than later...
Author:  SethB [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
You might want to have a (hidden) witness, preferably with a video camera, whenever you pick up or return your son.

It's also legal for you to carry a tape recorder and record your own conversations (in MN).
Author:  Rand McNally [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
That's just it, we NEVER talk or exchange words. Yet she has tried in the past to claim I have said things and what not. All have been proven wrong. My concern is a harassment claim being like a rape claim; guilty until PROVEN innocent. She tried accusing me of abusing my son and after a lengthly dispute I was able to prove she lied, however it wasn't easy and it almost cost me ALL parenting time with my son.

She's pretty hell-bent on causing me as many problems as she can. I just don't know how low she will go. She has exceeded all expectations thus far.

Thanks.
Author:  340PD [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
SethB wrote:
You might want to have a (hidden) witness, preferably with a video camera, whenever you pick up or return your son.

It's also legal for you to carry a tape recorder and record your own conversations (in MN).


I agree with carrying a voice recorder of some sort. There are a bunch of digital voice recorders out there that record to a memory chip and many of them record for many many hours if needed. Many of them are quite small and would fit in a shirt pocket and never be noticed. You could switch it on well in advance and just record everything. Some of them come with a cable and software to transfer your recordings to your computer. If you wanted to you could record every single time you exchanged your son and save it to your computer in chronological order. INAL but it is also my understanding that you can record a live conversation without anyone else knowing as long as you are present for the conversation. Hiding a recorder to tape a conversation for which you are not present I believe is a different animal. Good luck.
Author:  Dee [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
Tape recorder and witness (hidden or not) will always help.
You might also want to talk to an attorney, for advice on how you can protect yourself, if nothing else.
A last resort would to talk to social services but anytime you get them involved, its possible for all kinds of unpleasant things to happen.
Author:  tullibee [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
I picked up a digital recorder at Sam's Club for around $50 that holds a ton of conversation at the low quality, and something like 4 hours at high. has a USB for easy transfer. takes a AAA battery. it's about an inch and a quarter wide, 3 1/2 tall, about a 1/2 thick - hides really nice in a shirt pocket. figrued I'd at least carry it around whenever I'm carrying openly (don't do very often) and haven't really used it much otherwise. (do wish I had it when I got to talk to the officers about my spud gun in my truck the Friday before the RNC!)
Author:  DeanC [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
I'd talk to one of the more active lawyers on the board here: Marc Berris or Dick Unger. I'm 99% sure the initial discussion would be free.

I like the recorder idea. If no words are normally exchanged when you meet to pick up your son, there's still ways of documenting it on a recorder. Before you meet to pick up your son, you could stop a block away and say into the recorder: "This is Rand McNally on 9/29/09 at 12:06PM. I'm at the corner of 5th and Main in Minneapolis in my car. My odometer reading is 42,341.5 and I am meeting my ex-wife to pick up my son and then I am taking him to my house after we stop at Burger King to pick up some lunch."

You leave the recorder on until you get home. You will probably have some conversation with your son that will get recorded even if your ex-wife doesn't say anything. This might be valuable too. And maybe you could orchestrate an opportunity for your son to go on ahead of you into the house while you put the car in the garage and record a sign off note like the initial one where you announce the time and odometer reading again.

It might never amount to much, but in the event she claims you said something during the exchange, you'll have some pretty good evidence of what really happened.
Author:  rthib [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
Problem with Audio tape is that it is good for proving something, not so good for proving nothing happened.

Talk to your lawyer, one possibility is to go on the offensive and file a harassment complaint.
Or interfering with custody.

Something along the lines of:
Wife is belligerent during exchange and you are worried about the mental well being of the child (courts love that one.)

Just like in a firearm situation, the one to file first usually wins.
Author:  joelr [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
Talk to a lawyer who handles this stuff. There's some obvious and subtle dangers here, and professional advice is, IMHO, not optional.
Author:  mmcnx2 [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
I've got a brother with a similiarly bad situation and what he did was talked to the local police and arranged to do the exchange in their lobby, where they have a desk clerk on duty 24/7.

Stopped all the bulls**t claims immediately, also gave the locals a heads up on who might be more forward with the truth, given he had proactively approached them.
Author:  mnglocker [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
mmcnx2 wrote:
I've got a brother with a similiarly bad situation and what he did was talked to the local police and arranged to do the exchange in their lobby, where they have a desk clerk on duty 24/7.

Stopped all the bulls**t claims immediately, also gave the locals a heads up on who might be more forward with the truth, given he had proactively approached them.



This. ^^^^ And a lawyer.
Author:  bstrawse [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
I echo the advice to consult an attorney that handles such issues and follow their advice.

Another option would be to use third-party for the exchange of your son -- I have a cousin presently going through a nasty divorce and their using that process for exchanging their daughter.

B
Author:  kecker [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
mmcnx2 wrote:
I've got a brother with a similiarly bad situation and what he did was talked to the local police and arranged to do the exchange in their lobby, where they have a desk clerk on duty 24/7.

Stopped all the bulls**t claims immediately, also gave the locals a heads up on who might be more forward with the truth, given he had proactively approached them.


Excellent idea.

But yeah, talk to a lawyer too. Be proactive. Otherwise if she does file a restraining order and you come back and say she's been bullying you and it's been bothering you, they are going to come back and point out that it obviously didn't bother you enough for you to try to stop it (i.e. you're lying).

Talk to a lawyer, at least get advice on how to proceed.
Author:  Scott Hughes [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
LAWYER, LAWYER, LAWYER :!: It may cost some but in the long run it'll probably be money well spent. Advice from folks like us here is good for venting; but a professional is what you really need.

I've known people that have had some real nasty problems with an ex-spouse (POSSLQ, etc.) that made claims of one thing or another just to get the other person to loose their cool. It can be a real bad scene when a vindictive type is hell-bent to do harm.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Restraining Order Questions
Scott Hughes wrote:
LAWYER, LAWYER, LAWYER :!: It may cost some but in the long run it'll probably be money well spent. Advice from folks like us here is good for venting; but a professional is what you really need.


Yup. Although the "LAWYER, LAWYER, LAWYER" advice is pretty solid. ;)
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