Regarding Open Carry in MN
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72_chev_truck
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Post subject: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:30 pm |
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:02 am Posts: 13
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I would like to begin by saying I have not yet been able to afford to take Joel's carry class or afford the permit cost that goes with it.
I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open.
Can someone please direct me to the statutes that mention open carry legality?
Thanks
Please do not turn this into an open carry vs conceal carry debate.
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kecker
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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72_chev_truck wrote: I would like to begin by saying I have not yet been able to afford to take Joel's carry class or afford the permit cost that goes with it.
I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open.
Can someone please direct me to the statutes that mention open carry legality?
Thanks
Please do not turn this into an open carry vs conceal carry debate. Your friend has a rather perverted view of the law. Taken to it's logical conclusion we live in a police state where only that which is specifically permitted is legal. I know several countries that operate that way, this is not one of them. The law never mentions concealment, therefore it is legal despite your friends frame of mine. And to be quite honest, and I honestly mean no offense, but if that's the frame of mind with which your friend approaches the law I'm not sure law enforcement is a good field for him/her.
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:46 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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Ask him whether it's legal to wear a red shirt on a Tuesday -- there's no statute specifying its legality, either.
Do this: ask him, when he made the arrest, what statute he would cite as being violated?
He sounds like an absolute embarrassment to the profession, if he has that little understanding of how the law works. I'd like to know what department he works for, as he has clearly been under-trained and under-screened.
Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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dismal
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:54 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:12 pm Posts: 330 Location: Rochester, MN
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kecker
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:00 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Andrew Rothman wrote: Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education. If I were to type that out I would have typed it out as ".....he certainly sounds as if he needs some education.".
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:02 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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kecker wrote: Andrew Rothman wrote: Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education. If I were to type that out I would have typed it out as ".....he certainly sounds as if he needs some education.". You know me -- I try to be kind and gentle.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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Traveler
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:01 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
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kecker wrote: Your friend has a rather perverted view of the law. My nomination for the understatement of the year!
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72_chev_truck
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:02 am |
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:02 am Posts: 13
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Thanks folks, I thought that was the case that it meant you could carry any way you wish.
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joelr
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:05 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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72_chev_truck wrote: Thanks folks, I thought that was the case that it meant you could carry any way you wish. Yup. Longer form . . . The authoritarian view: anything not specifically permitted is prohibited. "Where's the law that says you can carry openly, if you have a permit? If I don't see it, I won't let you do it." The American view: anything not specifically prohibited is permitted. "Where's the law forbidding open carry? Oh -- there isn't one. Have a nice day, citizen." This guy needs remedial third grade civics.
_________________ Just a guy.
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:09 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm Posts: 1682 Location: Wright County
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Andrew Rothman wrote: I'd like to know what department he works for, as he has clearly been under-trained and under-screened.
I'd like to know so I can get some $$$ from a wrongful arrest suit.
_________________ Get Off My Lawn.
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Lenny7
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:45 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am Posts: 1060 Location: Savage, MN
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72_chev_truck wrote: I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open. Others have answered the question, but I'd like to thank you for your efforts in setting him straight. Once he gets it, ask him to tell his cohorts.
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havegunjoe
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:29 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:32 am Posts: 515 Location: Metro Area - Apple Valley
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The terminology used in the Statute is, “on or about the person’s clothes or the person, or otherwise in possession or control”. It does not say anything about hidden from view, or concealed as a requirement.
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72_chev_truck
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:37 pm |
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:02 am Posts: 13
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Another question, I think I know this but I just want to verify.
No carry signs carry no legal weight in MN correct?
So as I understand it, you can still carry there and if caught and requested to leave you must leave or face trespassing charges. Am I correct on that? UNLESS of course that property happens to be one of the prohibited areas.
As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are.
I have a permit in SD mainly because it takes a form, $10, and you have your temp permit that day and a regular permit within a couple weeks.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:53 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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72_chev_truck wrote: Another question, I think I know this but I just want to verify.
No carry signs carry no legal weight in MN correct?
So as I understand it, you can still carry there and if caught and requested to leave you must leave or face trespassing charges. Am I correct on that? UNLESS of course that property happens to be one of the prohibited areas.
As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are.
I have a permit in SD mainly because it takes a form, $10, and you have your temp permit that day and a regular permit within a couple weeks. Sure they do. They serve as notification. A verbal "we don't allow guns in this store" can also serve as notification. Process for a permit holder to get in trouble: 1) Be notified that the establishment bans guns 2) Be asked to leave the establishment 3) Refuse to leave after being asked 4) Be dumb enough to stick around to get a trespassing ticket from the responding officer Signs play a role in #1. Is there a penalty for just carrying past a sign in MN? No. But it doesn't mean that a sign isn't part of the process. Carrying into a prohibited area (e.g. jail, airport)...yeah. THOSE signs will smack you hard if you disobey. -Mark
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:31 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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72_chev_truck wrote: As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are. I don't think you understand how egregious it is that this "law enforcement" officer not only doesn't know the carry law, but doesn't understand how the American legal system works. If your characterizations of him were correct, he needs far more remedial education than you can provide.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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