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Hennepin Co. Gov. Center/District Court security arrangement
http://www.ellegon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7155		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  44to375 [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Hennepin Co. Gov. Center/District Court security arrangement
Greetings,

Recently, Hennepin County announced that they are installing a permanent weapons screening system. The exact list of prohibited items is not available but a pretty good approximation is found at http://wwwa.co.hennepin.mn.us/portal/site/HCInternet/menuitem.3f94db53874f9b6f68ce1e10b1466498/?vgnextoid=aba4d4eb379fc010VgnVCM1000000f094689RCRD&vgnextfmt=default.

It all started with the x-Chief Judge Burke’s order issued on 5/27/2003. The order banned any weapons and applied only to the court facilities.

Is this right that the screening system’s configuration evolved into two completely distinct lanes leading separately to the administrative and court towers? It would mean that, the County imposed the court-related restriction on the people entering the County administration building. It would also, contrary to the MN law, prohibited guns from possession by permit owners in a public building that is not a court.

Back to the lane leading to the court tower, not everything seems straight forward as well. Consider, for example, a person called to serve as a juror. Suppose, she comes with a nail file and is barred from entry (see the above mentioned list), unless she removes it from her purse.

Would it constitute imposing an additional, illegal (not authorized by any MN law) requirement for a juror? Or, if it happens after the juror started serving, could it be qualified as interfering with the jury functioning – a criminal offense.

The Burke’s order (not available on-line but I have a .pdf that cannot be attached to this post) reminded me a pre-9/11 airport screening. The current system has not just reached the post-9/11 level. At times it is even stricter: while TSA now allows small scissors and butter knives, Hennepin Co. does not. [Some other counties might have a similar situation]

I doubt that the County Attorney or Sheriff’s Offices would be helpful in fixing this. They are listed among those signed off on the current system. I am wondering what State agencies could be involved in straightening things there.

And maybe a poor juror fearing of being illegally barred from doing her duty can I ask for an escort, similar to what the US provided to ensure a safe passage of a black student into the school in AL in the ‘60s?

Cheers…
Author:  gaygoalie [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hennepin Co. Gov. Center/District Court security arrange
44to375 wrote:
It would also, contrary to the MN law, prohibited guns from possession by permit owners in a public building that is not a court.

you're not breaking the law by bringing a gun into the court building, you're violating a court order, which happens to be contrary to the law..
Quote:
I am wondering what State agencies could be involved in straightening things there.

Until there is some sort of accountability for judges that issue orders like this, there's not much that can be done.
Author:  mnglocker [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hennepin Co. Gov. Center/District Court security arrange
gaygoalie wrote:
Until there is some sort of accountability for judges that issue orders like this, there's not much that can be done.


"The New Thing"

Here's something to work on over the winter months.

Perhaps it's time for a tea party?
Author:  Old Dude [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
You could always take the case to court--the very court that issued the ruling in the first place. Good luck with that one.
Author:  44to375 [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Setting aside the court order...

I am trying to validate my observations and conclusions:

1. The separate security lane to the Government (not court) tower exists; it should not prohibit permit holders to bring in guns.

2. The court-bound lane should not prohibit knives as they are not covered by both law and said order. Barring a juror with a knife from entry is a criminal act.

The rest is the background.

Is there a way to post the judge's order here (unless it's already found elsewhere)?

Happy Black Friday!
Author:  Suited [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 
From an earlier thread I seem to remember that if you send a notification of your intent to carry at the courthouse to the Sheriff in accordance with the actual law then the Judicial Police...Oops, I mean the Sheriff's Dept, will hand deliver a copy of this made up law right to your door.
Author:  gaygoalie [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:36 am ]
Post subject: 
44to375 wrote:
Setting aside the court order...

I am trying to validate my observations and conclusions:

1. The separate security lane to the Government (not court) tower exists; it should not prohibit permit holders to bring in guns.

it shouldn't, but since you can cross from the government to the court tower, Judge Burke listed both as areas covered by his order.

I have fewer problems with a judge saying "you can't do this in my courtroom" and narrowing it to his courtroom, but doing the entire complex just annoys me in so many ways..

This has been discussed before many times.. getting a court order overturned is nearly impossible as you'd be going before the same judge, or friends of his.. you could find yourself in contempt for trying to fight it, if the judge doesn't like it..
Author:  Suited [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Maybe if the Sheriff recieved a hundred or so notifications next week the problem could be brought to a head.
Author:  DeanC [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
My wife was recently called for jury duty in Hennepin County. This was included in her notice:

Image
Author:  44to375 [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
I think juror's access might be a good vehicle for limiting the restrictions. This is governed by MN Constiitutions and MN Laws and legally might be modified by the Court Order (no guns) but not by the county. The County invented the level of "no nail files" and "no bladed nothing".
Author:  DeanC [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
The no pepper-spray is something that really grates on me too.

I guess you can still bring your keys. :roll:
Author:  chunkstyle [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
E-mail the county Administrator, Richard P. Johnson, and ask what statute empowers him to do this.

county.admin@co.hennepin.mn.us

It occurs to me, that if 3 already-empanelled jurors in a given case all decided at once to not be disarmed at the checkpoint, the judge would have to choose between admitting them or calling a mistrial. Sure, they could be arrested, but that would also cause a mistrial.
Author:  Suited [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Have any permit holders been called to jury duty since the order was issued? Could the Sheriff be excluding prospective jurors on this basis?
Author:  44to375 [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was not going to violate the order and bring a gun. I thought there is a stronger case in insisting to appear with a nail file. In this case, I believe, it would make a juror a victim of not being let to serve... Am I right?
Author:  IDPA Shooter [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Would they Object to my bringing my cell phone?
DeanC wrote:
The no pepper-spray is something that really grates on me too.

I guess you can still bring your keys. :roll:




http://rejfirearmstraining.com/glock%20cell%20phone.jpg
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